Yes to this and all the comments. I started noticing this in NYC about 15 years ago, around the time of the rise of Instagram. Sooo much hype and marketing not just for restaurants but all consumer goods and the rise of mid really began - and people believe the hype and “fine” was not just “good enough” but became “amazing.” For all the reasons you describe plus another - I don’t think many people want to admit, after they’ve spent a fair amount of money on something, that they didn’t love it. Restaurants, theatre, trips, products, whatever. The hype and/or they haven’t lived through the good stuff. Luckily I’m a competent home cook and I way prefer something simple at home than a $100 “fine” meal. They’ll survive without me! I stick to my short list of low-hype reasonably priced places that are consistently yummy on the rare occasion that I eat out.
Dear Lindsey and Christine, thank you~ I found this to be an excellent read and a subject with which I have experience.
As a chef, and occasionally a consulting chef (especially during the COVID period), I have observed that numerous food establishments lack an Advisory Board (AB) that goes beyond just family and friends. An AB that includes a diverse representation from the community can provide more valuable feedback. Many chefs tend to offer limited critiques of their friends' new restaurants, possibly to avoid offending them or simply out of pride for their friends' new endeavors. We often do not have the time or the luxury to dine out frequently. So, we (at least I) appreciate experienced diners like yourselves for more in-depth reviews. I concur that many talented and skilled individuals—chefs, front-of-house staff, and sommeliers—have done an admirable job in launching new restaurants. However, the other aspects you both mentioned, such as lighting, music, and atmosphere, have sometimes been lacking in their overall approach. We, as professionals in the industry, need to delve deeper than mere consistency. We must create an environment that is restorative, ensuring that diners leave with a desire to return. It is crucial for diners to understand the essence of a restaurant and even a little bit of "je ne sais quoi" that compels one to return time and time again. I believe it is important for new establishments to clearly communicate who they are and what they aim to achieve within their community from the outset. Ambiguity breeds confusion, and confusion leads to hesitation. I subscribe to the old adage regarding the elevator pitch when it comes to describing or recommending a restaurant: keep it concise, specify the type, what it offers, and what makes it memorable.
As a chef, when I hear the term 'fine' coming back to the kitchen, it translates to me as satisfactory or neutral. Such diners are not motivated to return. In a small community, these establishments will quickly fade away like a wax candle. In a larger metropolitan area, it may take a few years before they become indistinguishable.
I find this more of a problem in London and have experienced it in Paris too. So many restaurants do not deliver. I’ve eaten in Fine restaurants where only a third of the tasting menu is exceptional, and the rest is just fine. This is the same problem in restaurants serving small plates which has led to the fatigue felt with these kind of restaurants where you end up paying north of £80 for what is a mediocre meal.
What I find is that there is often a lot of peripheral coverup via luxurious setting, overly flattering wait-staff, etc. to cover up food that is merely fine, but not up to the level that the house wants you to think it is.
Great piece!! I don’t think it applies only to Paris. I feel like I experience the same feeling of “Fine” at many fine dining restaurants here in the States.
I have to admit I am experiencing the same in Montreal. There is something quite blanched about the neo-bistro which is considered the typical Montreal fair.
It is barely a notch above what you would like to spend for what is often a dressed up sandwich and over fried frites, or tartare without enough toast—4 little wheels sitting lonely on the plate with a handful of limp mixed greens and one cherry tomato halved ($28-32 CAD).
The atmosphere is bleh-black and repurposed wood, every time. The lighting! Funny you mention it because it’s either too dark to read a menu at all or institutionally too generous. They all look pretty much the same, as sitting in any dark on dark room with moderately stable chairs that is meant to feel intimate might feel, yet is under decored, ie., cold. They also rarely have the sound buffered by any substantial textile or cushioning, so what is meant to be private still feels cafeteria.
I cook at home—considering myself of decent culinary talent. Spending the same money on good ingredients and a couple of terrific bottles of wine is much more rewarding. Most of the time, my meals are valued more than anything had at those bistros.
To your point, the few meals we spend money out for these days tend to be specialized, either culturally or culinary, in a way I do not make them or cannot make better. This is how we establish what is worth eating out for these days: can I make it better? If so, we dress, invite friends, and have our own culinary evening—which I guarantee we all remember.
Thank you for making me realize it’s not just us. I don’t think it’s a test period for a new place. I do think it’s a form of averaging that is happening everywhere. ‘Fine’ and ‘nice’ are never a reason to return. In fact, we often sit there thinking “this is okay” with a neutral possibility of coming back until we get the check and realize that $100 was spent without joy. After all, this is what it’s about, right? Gaining joy in palate and company, in a place worth talking about for many moons afterward.
Tossing money out the window might feel more exciting!
Yes to all of the above. We’ve found in recent years that we get more satisfaction dining in either ethnic restaurants or those focused on the homey versions of regional French cuisine. The food is honest and unpretentious, often with flavors that are new to us. The atmosphere and service may be more “relaxed,” but the prices are as well, so our overall satisfaction with the meal usually ends up somewhere north of “fine”.
If you can find a restaurant that does this AND kicks it up a notch (such as Kubri), you’ve got a real winner in my book.
Something that has already been touched upon is the idea of "who is the restaurant aiming to serve?". I have seen an obvious change in my corner of Provence over the past twenty years as restaurants have shifted from establishing then keeping a loyal, local clientele to chasing after a tourist dollar (or euros). And this goes applies to every price point. So many places are now offering "an idea of" something rather than creating something new or honing authenticity. It's a concept of a plan, instead of a plan in action, let alone a vibe.
This conversation names something I deal with constantly. As a concierge at a palace hotel in Paris, I’m the person who has to send guests somewhere with confidence. And the hardest part right now is looking at the growing number of technically competent places where nothing goes wrong but nothing stays with you either. The feedback loop point really struck me. I see it from a slightly different angle: when guests come back and say ‘it was nice,’ that’s the worst possible review. It means I can’t send anyone else there with conviction. Christine’s description of Pochana is the antidote. A clear point of view, a short menu, actual personality. Those are the places I can recommend without hesitation, because there’s something specific to recommend.
Interesting conversation. I agreed with a lot of what was discussed but think that the reason why fine is becoming more acceptable in the trade is because the audience - the consumer - is less educated and has lower expectations. We should not forget that macdonalds and picard rule the roost when it comes to food spend for most people and so most people are happy today with what snobs like myself think is mediocre... just fine is enough to run a restaurant business these days.
We eat out 1) on rare occasions when eating at home is just not possible; 2) when we want to go out, have a nice time, and eat something we can't eat at home or that is just substantially better than what we eat at home. And we are more often than not disappointed. Anyone with a bit of good home cooking experience and access to fresh, excellent French ingredients (les producteurs locaux!) can generally, in my experience--and I'm not just talking about my own cooking--put on a better meal than most Parisian restaurants. It may not be plated as artistically but the quality will be as good for much less or better for much less. Sometimes, we are wowed by a new restaurant. Nine times out of ten, when we excitedly go back, it isn't nearly as good as when it first opened. I so miss the true regional mom-and-pop restaurants of France past and the very, very good, reliable neighborhood restaurants of yore. Our favorite Paris restaurant for three years now is Kubri. We have never been disappointed and love the warm welcome we always get there. Also, it's once again a very good time to support Lebanon and the Lebanese people.
Yessss Kubri has never disappointed! And consistency matters so much in the overall experience. It’s why the list of the places I return to over and over again is actually quite short. I am not quite the experienced home cook but my job has taught me to understand and detect technique, flavor balance, and especially, when someone is phoning in a dish. I don’t blame you for being selective in where you spend your money!
Great article. For me it’s a question of expectations and price range. I feel that too many restaurants allow themselves to serve mediocre food while asking for Michelin star prices. And sure, when you dine out a lot it affects your standards. But I think it is for a reason- it costs much more than the usual bistro prices.
I can point at a recent example of paying a few hundred euros while the food was not even fine (not to mention allergies I states a few times and still was served with food I’m not allowed to eat). I know the chef, I sent him a very polite and detailed message about the experience. He responded with ‘I’m sorry we will be better next time’, and that’s it. I won’t be back anytime soon. I guess that people are still impressed with someone being well known or active on social media, even if the experience isn’t great.
This was in Europe, yea? Because in the U.S. there are often gestures (and maybe a kind of pleading) meant to prevent from leaving nasty reviews or suing-- *especially* if allergies were not properly respected.
I live in Portland, Oregon, a town known for its food scene and I was just having this exact conversation with my family. We do not consider ourselves gourmets or foodies, but recent outings to some of our favorite places have left us saying, meh. I think it’s a lack of spices or certain ingredients going into the food. Things just don’t taste as vivid or fresh as they used to. Is it the cost of things? That’s my guess, but to your point, if we’re being careful with our dollars and your experience is less than you anticipated, why not just stay home? Good read, thanks!
One of the very standard questions on the proliferating mental health questionnaires at US medical providers is
“Have you lost interest in activities that you used to enjoy?”
Perhaps you are overexposed, just spoiled, or possibly depressed? Maybe you need a sabbatical where you pay out of pocket for every meal or better yet, always cook for yourself?
It seems like a large ask to expect emotional stimulation and transcendence from a meal, at any price point. Most of us go to the performing or visual arts, or sublime landscapes for that specific experience.
With so many restaurants chasing the wealthy (a finite pool), they are going to provide a safe predictable product for that customer base. That wealth is no guarantee of adventuresome taste.
I don't know if you're insinuating that I do not pay for meals but 90% of my money each month goes to food so...! And the answer isn't to suggest that every experience needs to be life changing but this phase of "fine" or, worse, less than average, is a movement that deserves to be tracked for economic and social reasons.
This is also definitely a trend in the US as well. Another commenter rightly pointed out that the rise of social media and the Instagram friendly-restaurant that certainly a part of it. Restaurants are more about aesthetics and vibes than food. My theory is it also has a lot to do with the business economics. Most new restaurants are in expensive neighborhoods with expensive build-outs and require major financial backers…sometimes who are looking more for a “cool” atmosphere to invite their friends than really care about interesting food, and at the very least are looking to make a healthy profit back which means higher prices, less room for experimentation etc. The “auteur”/chef-driven restaurant that is small place run by a talented chef who is basically self-funding or taking a loan from the bank or from family & friends are far fewer these days because they are not financially viable with the rising costs of everything, and in my experience that is where you find exciting cooking and far greater value.
Yes to this and all the comments. I started noticing this in NYC about 15 years ago, around the time of the rise of Instagram. Sooo much hype and marketing not just for restaurants but all consumer goods and the rise of mid really began - and people believe the hype and “fine” was not just “good enough” but became “amazing.” For all the reasons you describe plus another - I don’t think many people want to admit, after they’ve spent a fair amount of money on something, that they didn’t love it. Restaurants, theatre, trips, products, whatever. The hype and/or they haven’t lived through the good stuff. Luckily I’m a competent home cook and I way prefer something simple at home than a $100 “fine” meal. They’ll survive without me! I stick to my short list of low-hype reasonably priced places that are consistently yummy on the rare occasion that I eat out.
Dear Lindsey and Christine, thank you~ I found this to be an excellent read and a subject with which I have experience.
As a chef, and occasionally a consulting chef (especially during the COVID period), I have observed that numerous food establishments lack an Advisory Board (AB) that goes beyond just family and friends. An AB that includes a diverse representation from the community can provide more valuable feedback. Many chefs tend to offer limited critiques of their friends' new restaurants, possibly to avoid offending them or simply out of pride for their friends' new endeavors. We often do not have the time or the luxury to dine out frequently. So, we (at least I) appreciate experienced diners like yourselves for more in-depth reviews. I concur that many talented and skilled individuals—chefs, front-of-house staff, and sommeliers—have done an admirable job in launching new restaurants. However, the other aspects you both mentioned, such as lighting, music, and atmosphere, have sometimes been lacking in their overall approach. We, as professionals in the industry, need to delve deeper than mere consistency. We must create an environment that is restorative, ensuring that diners leave with a desire to return. It is crucial for diners to understand the essence of a restaurant and even a little bit of "je ne sais quoi" that compels one to return time and time again. I believe it is important for new establishments to clearly communicate who they are and what they aim to achieve within their community from the outset. Ambiguity breeds confusion, and confusion leads to hesitation. I subscribe to the old adage regarding the elevator pitch when it comes to describing or recommending a restaurant: keep it concise, specify the type, what it offers, and what makes it memorable.
As a chef, when I hear the term 'fine' coming back to the kitchen, it translates to me as satisfactory or neutral. Such diners are not motivated to return. In a small community, these establishments will quickly fade away like a wax candle. In a larger metropolitan area, it may take a few years before they become indistinguishable.
Exactly this. "Ambiguity breeds confusion, and confusion leads to hesitation."
I love hearing from chefs and restaurant owners on this issue.
I find this more of a problem in London and have experienced it in Paris too. So many restaurants do not deliver. I’ve eaten in Fine restaurants where only a third of the tasting menu is exceptional, and the rest is just fine. This is the same problem in restaurants serving small plates which has led to the fatigue felt with these kind of restaurants where you end up paying north of £80 for what is a mediocre meal.
What I find is that there is often a lot of peripheral coverup via luxurious setting, overly flattering wait-staff, etc. to cover up food that is merely fine, but not up to the level that the house wants you to think it is.
Taste is hard to depict on The ‘Gram…
Totally!
Great piece!! I don’t think it applies only to Paris. I feel like I experience the same feeling of “Fine” at many fine dining restaurants here in the States.
I have to admit I am experiencing the same in Montreal. There is something quite blanched about the neo-bistro which is considered the typical Montreal fair.
It is barely a notch above what you would like to spend for what is often a dressed up sandwich and over fried frites, or tartare without enough toast—4 little wheels sitting lonely on the plate with a handful of limp mixed greens and one cherry tomato halved ($28-32 CAD).
The atmosphere is bleh-black and repurposed wood, every time. The lighting! Funny you mention it because it’s either too dark to read a menu at all or institutionally too generous. They all look pretty much the same, as sitting in any dark on dark room with moderately stable chairs that is meant to feel intimate might feel, yet is under decored, ie., cold. They also rarely have the sound buffered by any substantial textile or cushioning, so what is meant to be private still feels cafeteria.
I cook at home—considering myself of decent culinary talent. Spending the same money on good ingredients and a couple of terrific bottles of wine is much more rewarding. Most of the time, my meals are valued more than anything had at those bistros.
To your point, the few meals we spend money out for these days tend to be specialized, either culturally or culinary, in a way I do not make them or cannot make better. This is how we establish what is worth eating out for these days: can I make it better? If so, we dress, invite friends, and have our own culinary evening—which I guarantee we all remember.
Thank you for making me realize it’s not just us. I don’t think it’s a test period for a new place. I do think it’s a form of averaging that is happening everywhere. ‘Fine’ and ‘nice’ are never a reason to return. In fact, we often sit there thinking “this is okay” with a neutral possibility of coming back until we get the check and realize that $100 was spent without joy. After all, this is what it’s about, right? Gaining joy in palate and company, in a place worth talking about for many moons afterward.
Tossing money out the window might feel more exciting!
Yes to all of the above. We’ve found in recent years that we get more satisfaction dining in either ethnic restaurants or those focused on the homey versions of regional French cuisine. The food is honest and unpretentious, often with flavors that are new to us. The atmosphere and service may be more “relaxed,” but the prices are as well, so our overall satisfaction with the meal usually ends up somewhere north of “fine”.
If you can find a restaurant that does this AND kicks it up a notch (such as Kubri), you’ve got a real winner in my book.
Great piece! As you know I have Thoughts and Opinions about this. Working on a post of my own, albeit with just a sliver of your expertise.
We must keep comparing notes !!
Something that has already been touched upon is the idea of "who is the restaurant aiming to serve?". I have seen an obvious change in my corner of Provence over the past twenty years as restaurants have shifted from establishing then keeping a loyal, local clientele to chasing after a tourist dollar (or euros). And this goes applies to every price point. So many places are now offering "an idea of" something rather than creating something new or honing authenticity. It's a concept of a plan, instead of a plan in action, let alone a vibe.
An “idea” of something sums this up quite well! (And what a bummer, for Provence)
This conversation names something I deal with constantly. As a concierge at a palace hotel in Paris, I’m the person who has to send guests somewhere with confidence. And the hardest part right now is looking at the growing number of technically competent places where nothing goes wrong but nothing stays with you either. The feedback loop point really struck me. I see it from a slightly different angle: when guests come back and say ‘it was nice,’ that’s the worst possible review. It means I can’t send anyone else there with conviction. Christine’s description of Pochana is the antidote. A clear point of view, a short menu, actual personality. Those are the places I can recommend without hesitation, because there’s something specific to recommend.
Interesting conversation. I agreed with a lot of what was discussed but think that the reason why fine is becoming more acceptable in the trade is because the audience - the consumer - is less educated and has lower expectations. We should not forget that macdonalds and picard rule the roost when it comes to food spend for most people and so most people are happy today with what snobs like myself think is mediocre... just fine is enough to run a restaurant business these days.
We eat out 1) on rare occasions when eating at home is just not possible; 2) when we want to go out, have a nice time, and eat something we can't eat at home or that is just substantially better than what we eat at home. And we are more often than not disappointed. Anyone with a bit of good home cooking experience and access to fresh, excellent French ingredients (les producteurs locaux!) can generally, in my experience--and I'm not just talking about my own cooking--put on a better meal than most Parisian restaurants. It may not be plated as artistically but the quality will be as good for much less or better for much less. Sometimes, we are wowed by a new restaurant. Nine times out of ten, when we excitedly go back, it isn't nearly as good as when it first opened. I so miss the true regional mom-and-pop restaurants of France past and the very, very good, reliable neighborhood restaurants of yore. Our favorite Paris restaurant for three years now is Kubri. We have never been disappointed and love the warm welcome we always get there. Also, it's once again a very good time to support Lebanon and the Lebanese people.
Yessss Kubri has never disappointed! And consistency matters so much in the overall experience. It’s why the list of the places I return to over and over again is actually quite short. I am not quite the experienced home cook but my job has taught me to understand and detect technique, flavor balance, and especially, when someone is phoning in a dish. I don’t blame you for being selective in where you spend your money!
Great article. For me it’s a question of expectations and price range. I feel that too many restaurants allow themselves to serve mediocre food while asking for Michelin star prices. And sure, when you dine out a lot it affects your standards. But I think it is for a reason- it costs much more than the usual bistro prices.
I can point at a recent example of paying a few hundred euros while the food was not even fine (not to mention allergies I states a few times and still was served with food I’m not allowed to eat). I know the chef, I sent him a very polite and detailed message about the experience. He responded with ‘I’m sorry we will be better next time’, and that’s it. I won’t be back anytime soon. I guess that people are still impressed with someone being well known or active on social media, even if the experience isn’t great.
This was in Europe, yea? Because in the U.S. there are often gestures (and maybe a kind of pleading) meant to prevent from leaving nasty reviews or suing-- *especially* if allergies were not properly respected.
Yes it was here in France. Most of my experiences are great but this one wasn’t good.
I live in Portland, Oregon, a town known for its food scene and I was just having this exact conversation with my family. We do not consider ourselves gourmets or foodies, but recent outings to some of our favorite places have left us saying, meh. I think it’s a lack of spices or certain ingredients going into the food. Things just don’t taste as vivid or fresh as they used to. Is it the cost of things? That’s my guess, but to your point, if we’re being careful with our dollars and your experience is less than you anticipated, why not just stay home? Good read, thanks!
One of the very standard questions on the proliferating mental health questionnaires at US medical providers is
“Have you lost interest in activities that you used to enjoy?”
Perhaps you are overexposed, just spoiled, or possibly depressed? Maybe you need a sabbatical where you pay out of pocket for every meal or better yet, always cook for yourself?
It seems like a large ask to expect emotional stimulation and transcendence from a meal, at any price point. Most of us go to the performing or visual arts, or sublime landscapes for that specific experience.
With so many restaurants chasing the wealthy (a finite pool), they are going to provide a safe predictable product for that customer base. That wealth is no guarantee of adventuresome taste.
I don't know if you're insinuating that I do not pay for meals but 90% of my money each month goes to food so...! And the answer isn't to suggest that every experience needs to be life changing but this phase of "fine" or, worse, less than average, is a movement that deserves to be tracked for economic and social reasons.
This is also definitely a trend in the US as well. Another commenter rightly pointed out that the rise of social media and the Instagram friendly-restaurant that certainly a part of it. Restaurants are more about aesthetics and vibes than food. My theory is it also has a lot to do with the business economics. Most new restaurants are in expensive neighborhoods with expensive build-outs and require major financial backers…sometimes who are looking more for a “cool” atmosphere to invite their friends than really care about interesting food, and at the very least are looking to make a healthy profit back which means higher prices, less room for experimentation etc. The “auteur”/chef-driven restaurant that is small place run by a talented chef who is basically self-funding or taking a loan from the bank or from family & friends are far fewer these days because they are not financially viable with the rising costs of everything, and in my experience that is where you find exciting cooking and far greater value.